As to your challenge; what you are saying is equivalent to asking the question; “why didn’t the homo-erectus have homes, and books and schools?” How can you absolutely compare two successive civilisations with a time distance of thousands of years??? To get the answer of your question, look at the chronology of historic events! Zoroastroanism was much before Islam, you cannot say that it was completely Islam who brought to us our great civilisation, but rather, the effects of every historic event that happened to us which augmented and augmented our knowledge and reached it peak during the Islamic conquest. You cannot say that it was solely the Islamic conquest which was the reason to all this civilisation; take this into consideration, if we hadn’t been so cultivated, we would’nt have been able to integrate islam so well into our society and make use of it, if we had been barbarians and nomads, we would have fought till the end. But it was our great cultural background and zoroastrian civilisation which laid the foundations for the integration of Islam into our society.

You cannot say that we havent had any pre-islamic scientists, its a matter of dicovery of how to record things and leave traces, you can’t call them “bummer” just because our zoroastrian ancestors haven’t been able to record it! Its a matter of time and of the slow development and advance of human beings. We haven’t reached the 21st century in just a click bang, it took millions of years for the homo erectus to evolve into homo sapiens and on top of that thousands of years for our ancestor nomads and hunters to develop into what we are today!

What i want to make clear is that - don’t look at all of our scientists solely as a result of Islam, take into consideration what exactly set the foundations for this Islam to integrate. Compare us to the fellow muslim arab nomads, they were muslims right from the beginning, did they see as many scientists as we did?? No, they didn’t, and i will tell you why, because they weren’t zoroastrians from the beginning, and had no zoroastrian civilisation to lay the foundations for Islam to integrate.

And as for soviet scientists. The soviet rule is a very very controversial topic to talk about. Brief, on one hand we “developed” in an industrial sense, (although it was very centralised and was done in only some cities while the rural standard of life was even worsened by the amount of cotton picking) and on the other in a sense it was a kind of “colonialisation” which exploited our natural resources even to this very day and used our land for growth of cotton. We did see some very great tajik scientists and writers, such as Bobojon Ghafurov, but on the whole it was a reign of terror and everybody was scared to do anything; second thing, our tajik scientists all left to Moscow to get their superior studies which were qualitatively better than the Dushanbe ones, ( i know many people of which my own grandfather is an example) and so the process of russification.

And to that precious religious person who keeps talking about alcoholism in Tajikistan - i would like to say, Islam cannot stop alcoholism, it is a good standard of life, equality, education which eradicate alcoholism. As for this, i know many “good muslim men” who don’t let their wives go out and make them wear scarves and yet, the first thing they do in the morning, is drink alcohol. Do you see Islam as a solution to the problem of alcoholism in this case?

For example, in America students focus on the history of Europe, because America was formerly a British colony, so naturally European history and culture have largely influenced that of America. The same holds true for Islam in Tajikistan. It makes a lot of sense to know the history of a force that has figured so prominently in the country’s history.

Along those same lines, it makes a lot of sense to learn about Soviet and Russian history, since that also greatly affected the course of Tajikistan’s history, but no one would argue that teaching about that history is the same as advocating a return to communism.

Idealistic, certainly not.
Explorative/provocative, yes.

“b) the current Islamic forces in Tajikistan would like an extreme form of Islam, which apart from abstinence from alcohol and prostitution (presumably good things)”

Do you mean the Hizb-i-Nezhât-i-Islami (IRP), the Hizb-ut-Tahrir or Bayat or all of them?

Yes, part of the older IRP generation is a bit ‘nyepanyatna’ but my impression is that the group is changing with younger cadres like Muhiddin Kabiri.

Regarding the Hizb-ut-Tahrir, I am not convinced that it is such a large and well-organized group as many say it is really. As for Bayat, a.f.a.i.k. this is a tiny fringe group that was only noticed in Chorku back in 2003.

“How would you like to be told that the world is the way it is “because Allah wanted it that way?”

I personally see it that way: part of wisdom is knowning that there are limits; so what we *can* rationally explain and what we *can* achieve or prevent, let’s do it. If we can not/all the rest is insh’Allah.

“Drinking araq and NOT wearing hijabs have become a part of culture of Tajiks and I don’t see how changing that could help us become better people.”

On itself, it doesn’t. Sure, you can wear a hejab and pray five times/day etc. and still be a bad person. That is not the point. What I do say is, that if a number of people become better people and find dignity through religion – in this case Islam – then they should not be criminalised as happens all too often now.

“I don’t see how drinking araq has made anyone a bad person.”

Drinking arag of sharap on itself, no. Abuse it and force other people to drink, yes. That are two different things. Plus, as we know, alc abuse is a big of social problem not only in the ex-USSR but also in the West.

“I visited my friend this last summer and I saw how he became more concervative.”

The question remains whethet your friend’s behavior is more patriarchal conservatism or ‘Islamic’ but I think that will take us too far in philosophy and gives me a headache.

By the way, refusing an education to your daughter is totally not acceptable but IMO you don’t tackle that with Western gender ngo moralising (I speak in general) but… by showing that Islam, the Quran or the Hadiths are not saying that you have to do such things.

“Those who want it will find it in religious establishments.”

OK: provided that they can function properly and openly.:)

The way you see Islam integrated into Tajik society is a little idealistic for two reasons: a) up to now I have not seen a religious scholar in Tajikistan who shares your approach in integration of Islam into society and b) the current Islamic forces in Tajikistan would like an extreme form of Islam, which apart from abstinence from alcohol and prostitution (presumably good things) teaches intollerance and degradation of thinking.

How would you like to be told that the world is the way it is “because Allah wanted it that way?” While perhaps true in essence this explanation misses out on so many exciting opportunities to learn about the world and develop. I personally don’t feel confortable with that line of explanation. Not after all the humanity has achieved. What Tajikistan needs is a generation of well educated young people who would advance their country.

As for Islamic values, they are inherent in Tajik society. They have always been there in some shape and form even through soviet times.

Drinking araq and NOT wearing hijabs have become a part of culture of Tajiks and I don’t see how changing that could help us become better people. I don’t see how drinking araq has made anyone a bad person. My father has drank all his life yet you can’t find a more honest and wise person in the whole Tajikistan. On contrary people with deep religious values have many times stuck me as stubborn, crooked, ignorant and intolerant folks.

I visited my friend this last summer and I saw how he became more concervative. He would not let his wife to be seen by other people. Nor (as he put it) would he like his daughter to visit school (because it goes counter to his islamc values).

When I think about the prospects for his daughter I see how she would grow up to be a good muslim woman (who would not look anyone into the eyes) and how she would respect her husband and be a good wife, but I also see a wasted life and a lot of unfulfiled dreams. Why should anyone want to live such a life?

Tajikistan surely does not need religion (any religion!) in schools. Those who want it will find it in religious establishments.

“While on the second I think both of us agree that and Islamic state and Shariah rule are desireable.”

Should of course be:

“While on the second I think both of us agree that and Islamic state and Shariah rule are *NOT* desireable.”

Here are a few comments from my side…

1) I think we mix up two things here: Islam as a religion and a set of social values and norms; and an Islamic state with Shariah rule. One does not necessarily mean the second.

There is nothing wrong is se with the first. While on the second I think both of us agree that and Islamic state and Shariah rule are desireable. First, it does not really work; and second if things go politically wrong, it is Islam who get teh belame.

2) I am well aware about the trauma left by the Tajik ‘jang dakhli’ (civil war) and the negative image that Islam got because of that, even if that war was a power struggle between regions that were manipulated by the Russian military and the regime in Tashkent and not and ideological- religious war (btw the worst crimes and massacres were committed by the ‘Communist’ Narodinii Front not the ‘Islamist’ UTO).

Anyway: many Tajik people I spoke to blamed the war on i) Nabiev, ii) Kenjaev and iii) the so-called Wahhabis (’vovchiki’). Now: the worst of the war ended in the mid-90s and in five to ten year from now, a generation of Tajiks will grow up who has no real or direct memories of the war. But they will be in need of an identity. And IMO, a suitable form of Islam will turn out to be an indispensable part of that.

3) Yes, I agree that Tajik culutre predates Islam e.g. it also has ancient links to Zoroastrianism. Even if I have a lot of respect for Zoroastrianism and its values it is basically dead as a cultural sphere. Islam, by contrast, is there as the religion of ca. 900 million people. And Islam is also not a one-size fits all label but has many currents and practices.

4) I don’t see why religious knowledge and consciouness by definition ‘degrades’ young people. What really degrades your young people IMO is alcohol and the worst of Western trash culture that floods your countries.

What if religion makes them better people? What if teaching Islamic history religion puts the religion in a right perspective. Yes there are Wahhabis (even is the threat that they pose is largely is exaggerated) and Al Qaeda. But Islam is also Sufism; the social works of the Ehdi Foundation and the Aga Khan Foundation; it was the religion of great civilisations: Bukhara, Grenada, Bagdad, … The main condition is, that the curriculum is written by scholars and people who know what they talk about and not by conservative mullahs.

5) Maybe we should abandon the idea that secularism and Western concepts have the moral high ground.

6) “What keeps devout muslims from practicing their religion anyway?”

In the ex-USSR, several things: pressure and intimidation by the authorities; permanent blackening and negative images of Islam by the local and Russian boulevard press; constant sabotage of even bona fide Islamic faith-based social works; etc. etc.

As I said, the mentality is often like this: someone who wears a hejab, does not drinks arag and visits the mosque is immediately ’suspect’; someone who boozes, prostitutes, … is OK, because that is ’secular’.

Look forward to hear from you.

It must be noted that many Tajiks do not want to live under the rule that oppresses freedom of individual expression. I think Tajikistan would be better off educating young Tajiks about their ancestors, where they come from and who they are. Being a Tajik is definitely more than being muslim. We have a rich history and culture that predates Islam. You can see the influence of it in every aspect of Tajik lives. Therefore, limiting self-identification to solely being muslim is pure negligence at least.

I don’t see the reason to introduce religion into secular school system. This will only degrade young people’s world outlook. Once a child is taught to identify himself with a religion and to see a world from a religious view point, it is hard to convince him/her to accept a different (secular) view.

What keeps devout muslims from practicing their religion anyway? The goal is not to let them dictate what others want to do with their lives.